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看看世界上最好的CD/SACD/DVD-A设计师是怎样评价PHILIPS CD-PRO2... [复制链接]

enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-29 17:35 |只看楼主
我向他推荐了PRO2M,下面是他的回答:


You are kidding?  Please look at the Linn transport here: http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/HardwareReviews/LinnUnidisc21/LinnUnidisk21.html

Honestly, it really looks like a Denon transport, but also might be a Sony or Philips. We are talking about a transport that weights no more than 2 pounds against the 15 pounds VRDS-NEO in the Esoteric.  

I have personally spoken with the Esoteric team. They said that the big VRDS-NEO is for them only as used in their 3 top line machines.

The down scaled version VRDS-NEO as found in the UX-3 and X-03 will be available for OEM at almost $3K a pop with lifetime support given 50 pieces are ordered at a time. Even this VRDS-NEO is light years better than anything else in current existence. One REALLY need to see one VRDS- NEO compared to the "usual" transports to appreciate it.  

So, no one else can have the top line VRDS-NEO.  

As for the new Philips CDM-Pro, it just has a nice "coat" on it (that cast Aluminum body). The rest is the same cheap stuff as in the other ones. This means noisy and unreliable DC tracking and spindle motors and that same unreliable laser pick up. The days of the killer CDM-Pro with the "swing arm" radial tracking are long gone my friend.  

BTW, the top VRDS-NEO is using a combination between radial and linear tracking.

Regards,
_________________
Alex Peychev

APL Hi-Fi
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 02:55 |只看楼主

The upgrade includes complete re-design of the UX-1 clocking, DACs and analog stage, as well as extensive power supply upgrades. It features World's first 211KHz/32bit upsampling and the flagship DACs from AKM, 10 per channel. Transformer coupled Single Ended Parallel Class A tube stage featuring the Super Linear dual triodes 6H30.


What is disabled from the original UX-1?

1. Multichannel capabilities. The NWO-1 is Stereo only.

2. External clocking. The NWO-1 has 2 APL Hi-Fi Master Clocks. All of the original clocking and the external clock input has been disabled.

Everything else is intact - Video, Digital outs, etc.

Due to space limitations, we can offer RCA or Balanced outputs. Both can not be provided.

The NWO-1 has the H-Attenuator as well, so no preamp is needed. Two dual triodes are used with the new output transformers resulting in output impedance of less than 50 Ohms. The output impedance does not vary with the attenuation.

As mentioned already, the intro price is $15,995 which is most likely to go up after the CES show.  Deposit of $9000 is required. We will start working on the orders after the CES show in order the deposit was received.

Please contact me if you have questions.

Regards,
_________________
Alex Peychev
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恭贺新禧
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恭贺新禧

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t T
发表于 2005-11-29 19:31 |只看该用户

徕卡 在 2005-11-29 18:00:15 发表的内容
这说明该设计师不喜欢或不了解CDpro2m机芯，马克、贵丰、瑞宝、文豪、AA、音乐之旅、MBL、CHORD等厂家全用此机芯全不成吃素的了。


我觉得都是吃素的，不都给你打败了吗？素，素的很！
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-29 18:10 |只看楼主

我又把CD-RPO2M的连接(DAISY的)给他发到他论坛去了,看看他如何回答.
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 02:47 |只看楼主

APL3910已经把EMM DDC2比下去了.看看世界最好的
APL NWO1:
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徕卡
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徕卡

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t T
发表于 2005-11-29 18:00 |只看该用户

enki 在 2005-11-29 17:37:38 发表的内容
至于说新的PHILPS CD-PRO2M,那只不过是在同样的廉价机心上家个铸铝的壳子而已.,...





这说明该设计师不喜欢或不了解CDpro2m机芯，马克、贵丰、瑞宝、文豪、AA、音乐之旅、MBL、CHORD等厂家全用此机芯全不成吃素的了。
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-29 17:41 |只看楼主

而 VRDS-NEO转盘重达15磅,钛合金制造.比VRDS-NEO低级的转盘可以OEM买到价格$3000美元,用在 UX-3 and X-03 等机器上即使这个等级的 VRDS-也比其他好几个光年....
想想CD-PRO2M才300多美元...
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 02:46 |只看楼主

APL3910已经把EMM DDC2比下去了.看看世界最好的
APL NWO1:
[img]http://www.aplhifi.com/NWO1/NWOFRONT.JPG]/img]
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 04:52 |只看该用户

Enki,他的机子你没有听过,我也没听过,评价的确很高.我也不否认.但有一点可能由于你对他的喜欢,或者崇拜就没有留意,就是Alex的ego很大.有时候有些过于夸大差异,如果你看过他的帖子,你经常会看到他喜欢用day and night difference,随便一个设置,一个开关,一个变化,他都认为是极大的差异.而且他有时候说话也有些武断.例如他多次说Esoteric DV-50里面的转盘和廉价的先锋DV-59AVi是相同的,结果Teac北美Esoteric销售主管纠正了他,并要求他去Teac北美开发部参观.结果就是Alex在论坛公开认错.如果你没有看到过,我可以给你在他论坛上这个事件相关的两个帖子.所以他对philips的转盘有多了解,也不能全听全信.
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 02:48 |只看楼主

APL3910已经把EMM DDC2比下去了.看看世界最好的
APL NWO1:
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 08:43 |只看楼主

APL 3910与EMM LAB平分秋色是猴年的事情了. 现在的确3910与那时候的有了NIGHT AND DAY的区别了.
"更何况他的SACD解码是DSD=>PCM的.因为他解决不好DSD高频噪声的问题. "这我还要研究一下,首先我相信耳朵收货,什么技术吹得再好也没有用,最后听起来不好都是华而不实的东西. 第二我只知道他最早做的PHILPS SACD1000是DSD-->PCM,后来的3910好象不是.
关于转盘,我相信PRO2M还是不一般的好不少,起码加了铸铝的封存就结实稳定了很多,而且转盘和CD的结合用碟压后肯定稳定了很多.即使用同样的马达,更稳定的机身个悬挂,更紧密与CD的结合都能很大提高读取的准确性.
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 08:53 |只看楼主

"问题是如果不用UX-1,他出不了这个声音啊.毕竟你付出1.6W美元,拿回来的是一台机器.人家Emm Labs用的是Philips SACD 1000加了自己数码输出.转盘上面让他几条马路了.对我来说,DIY的机子,至少应该超过自身价值一倍以上的品牌机. "

他的3910已经压过EMM了. NWO-1已经比EMM 快了几光年了.
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9500
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9500

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 08:06 |只看该用户

Raxel 在 2005-11-30 5:07:34 发表的内容
单就APL NWO1而言,他的定价是1.6W美元.EMM Labs的1.8W美元,但EMM Labs的有多声道输出,而且带了前级放大.并且人家是正规厂商,要广告费,售后服务费,销售商利润等等诸多其他开销,所以就性价比而言也不能算APL NWO1胜出.单就音效而言,一个是产量机.一个是手工做的,摩机性质的.里面的用料差别自然很大.所以就是APL NWO1胜出,也不能算是他水平一定高了多少.更何况他的SACD解码是DSD=>PCM的.因为他解决不好DSD高频噪声的问题.
关键是UX-1本身的售价就要一万多美圆了.
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 09:15 |只看楼主

RAM那家是很差的,我经历过他们的服务.技术差,人品差服更差,还好后来9折出手了.
当然是听过他的产品的用户支持他了.下面的是听过的说:"如果我没有听过ALEX的机器,我看了你的评价一定认为你是被雇用的枪手"
音乐论坛里的:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hirez&n=202299&highlight=apl+3910&r=&session=

If I never heard Alex's handywork
68.34.103.91



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Posted by Penguin ( A ) on February 27, 2005 at 18:48:17
In Reply to: APL Hi-Fi Denon 3910 SACD Player (Modded) posted by 711smilin on February 27, 2005 at 12:54:13:


I would have to conclude, he is paying you ;-)
Man, that is one glowing recommendation!

dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

Kurt Vonnegut
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 09:30 |只看楼主

Yes, Source Direct ON is pure DSD. Source Direct OFF is DSD converted to PCM. I am about to make a public announcement that I am abandoning DSD in its pure form. This format contains so much RF noise that is hard to believe. In order to have best sound out of DSD a heavy filtering is required. Scarlet Book calls for -18db at 50KHz. Otherwise you see specs that SACD (DSD) top extension is 100 KHz - impossible. The best sounding SACD machine is EMM Labs/Meitner. They use Burr-Brown's DSD1700 DACs which are DSD only. This DAC contains multiple FIR filters and is followed by two filtering stages in the analog domain built with OP Amps. Clearly, DSD has to be steeply filtered for best sonic results. Now, what is a better filtration to DSD other than converting it (linear) to PCM - 176.4KHz/24bit? In my knowledge - none. This is not only completely removing the noise from DSD but also provides top extension of, theoretically, 88.2KHz which is much higher than 50KHz, not to talk about the accuracy of 24 bit word on each sample. I think the guys from Accuphase and Esoteric are not that dumb after all since all of their units convert to PCM. I am fed up with DSD too.

As for the warmer sound with pure DSD, it's because of the noise most of the detail is masked which results in "warmer" mids but misses clarity.

Regards,
_________________
Alex Peychev
这是他说的,很好呀.上面一个贴子他也说了他发现的DSD OFF更好听,所以要证实一下,搞了这个调查.
他说DSD PURE里面有很多高频率噪音.效果还不如直接DDSD-->88KHZ PCM.
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enki
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Enki

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 09:38 |只看楼主

他说为什么会PCM比DSD PURE还好?是因为新的AKM DAC对PCM的解码太好了,所以感觉CD格式太太好了,其实DSD效果和以前一样,只是对PCM的解码太好了反而觉得用DSD PURE不好了.这没有看出他不会做DSD PURE而是更看出他水平高呀.
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 09:53 |只看该用户

enki 在 2005-11-30 9:48:54 发表的内容
APL 3910用AKM的PCM解码已经比EMM LABS的DSD好了,这次对比圣迭哥已经已经说明了, 原来的CRSTAL DAC 用DSD和EMM LABS 用DSD比也是在伯仲之间. 几个过滤器也把事情搞得复杂昂贵就是EMM LAB的本事?


首先,他的机子胜过EMM Labs不是公论,我重复前面的,是在他的论坛上, 他的用户, 他的支持者,倾向于他机子的声音.如果这个概念不能搞清楚.你考虑问题就有偏差了.
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9500
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9500

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 10:11 |只看该用户

咳,弄了半天,原来自己都还没听过.
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 10:23 |只看该用户

enki 在 2005-11-30 10:19:45 发表的内容
说实在的我更相信美国人民! 为什么回去捧一个东欧移民?
这就说明了人家公正,二说明了APL水平确实高,否则美国人跟他有什么相干? 一个人挑偏了HI-END大厂,TEAC,AKM都把他请去参观,AKM还专门派技术人员来APL学习.你能做到其中之一就就很崇拜你.


美国是一个多民族国家,本来就都是移民组成的.所以那里没有支持谁的概念,而且EMM Labs是加拿大的公司.Teac让他去参观,是因为他在网上胡说八道,破坏Esoteric DV-50的形象,后来也不清楚他究竟去了没有,反正是公开认错了.估计他不认错,人家就要起诉他了..AKM不是大公司,APL是他们的客户,当然要和他多联系了.
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Raxel
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Raxel

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t T
发表于 2005-11-30 10:33 |只看该用户

不是信不信的问题,我不否认他和他机子的水平,其实在168这个论坛我比你更早就推荐过这台机子了.你看看flexicat关于LP和CD讨论的置顶贴.上个星期JWang说要拿LP和CD机比的时候,我已经推荐过这台APL NWO了.你自己可以看一下.但是这种东西,作为商家论坛上的说法,多少肯定有鼓吹成分,不能全听全信.
最后编辑Raxel
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