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半小时后走出大派展厅,转入旁边的大昌展厅———— [复制链接]

查看: 53362|回复: 335
1#

madog 在 2003-12-17 17:56:32 发表的内容
salu 在 2003-12-17 13:00:20 发表的内容
madog 在 2003-12-17 10:25:30 发表的内容
[quote]madog 在 2003-12-16 3:48:54 发表的内容
[quote]阿泰 在 2003-12-15 11:06:45 发表的内容
那天大昌的展示,因我找不到坐的位置,前后左右地站过不少地方,但不管我身处展厅的那一个位置,都会被那妙不可言的音乐所打动,太正点了,非笔墨可以形容。


And this is what we called the dispersion. That means the speakers have
a character of better directivity. To elaborate this directivity, it means,
theoritically, the speaker should disperse the full spectrum within the angle
of at least 90 degree evenly. If the speakers sound peaky somewhere in
the mid to high frequency, then the speaker becomes beaming. We
called it beaming effect which is not good for hi fi reproduction.
A good directivity is comes from speaker itself that means the entire spectrum is evenly distribute into the air. Sometime the pros system have serious
feedback howling when talking or singing through mic, is simply due to
bad directivity. The peak has a much stronger energy(sound level) that eventually inject into the microphone then howling occur.
Even though you have a good speaker of good directivity character, yet,
peaky sound might come from electronics of bad design such as amps,
sound source, or perhaps cable would affect or generate peaky sound.
This is what we called noisy, irritated to our ears.
Your feel in that day is a result of wide dispersion of sound that whereever you stand, the music is there. This also count on the energy level of mid and high frequency.
Some system won't go far because their mid and high energy is less than
ideal. We can almost determine that the system is lacking harmonics and
add up together, the system has no penetration power.
To be honest, these are thing that Mr. Chan told me.
Once again, I am not Mr. Chan but if you guys giving him credits, I'll turn
around to let him know as I think he deserved the credits.
Thanks once agin your comment, I'll tell Mr. Chan.
By the way,  I don't think Mr. Chan would have time to join us in this forum.





I had missed out something on my post. When I said DIRECTIVITY,
that is not enough or it is not right.
The term DIRECTIVITY should be written as

       CONSTANT DIRECTIVITY

Sorry folks, excuse me of being misleading.



既然擁有完美擴散和指向性,請順便講解一下音箱擺位内拗的用意?

Some system won't go far because their mid and high energy is less than ideal. We can almost determine that the system is lacking harmonics and add up together, the system has no penetration power. [/quote]


The focus of any instruments or vocal is determined from the original recording, such as a music CD and it was tuned or pan to the proper position by the recording engineer(s) who according to his equipments in the studio.
In other word, recording engineer(s) uses his or their equipments as
recording reference.
The center image or focus was then determined by the engineer. It's
rather  simple, if engineer(s) give both channel same amount of level, then when we playback at home, the solo vocal or instrument will be in the
center position. This is the fact of phasing and I am not ready to talk about
in this forum because it would take a long hours to explain.
Back to our hom, when we cannot obtain the sharp focus while the
speakers were being face straight forward, more or less, I would assume,
the system may have insufficient mid to high frequency energy as most of
the solos are in the range of mid to high frequency. Toe-in your speakers
would help a lot. If so, the system's constant directivity may be less than
ideal. But for most audiophile, it is difficult to find out which link is to be
blamed.
In a really good system, one can easily find sharp focus even the speakers are facing strgith forward. Of course, the distance between 2 speakers
must be carefully adjusted
For initial speakers setup, you may put 2 speakers further apart, play a
vocal and find out the focus of the mouth. If the speakers were too distance away, you will find hollow in the middle, this implies insufficient of frequency energy that mostly mid & high register.
You may drag them closer till you find a sharper focus. However, toe-in your speakers is the most effective and easy way to obtain the right focus.
Back to the constant directivity.
If the system really achieve a near perfect constant directivity (including the speakers and electronics), you are able to put your speaker face forward to obtain a proper focus.
There is another case, for example, in case your speakers are OK, but if you have a really bad electronics, then this does not hold truth as the speakers need a full spectrum to satisfy the sound field.
Now, if a less than ideal electronic is not able to correctly reproduce harmonics, the instruments or vocal is not completed as the original sound
source, then it cannot penetrate very far in the air. You might imagin the air is a pool of water that will provide damping and of course water has a much higher density, but the phenominum is similar.

At last, hey guy, I like your attitud and this is the ways for working out problem.
Cheers and happy listening
[/quote]


ok,由於周邊器材的素質,影響了聚焦,内拗是最有效的解決方法,我接受您的解釋。

下一個問題:
音箱的内拗,會導致還原出來的音場扭曲嗎?結像的位置與錄音所要表達的一致嗎?改變是可聞性的嗎?
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2#

madog 在 2003-12-17 10:25:30 发表的内容
madog 在 2003-12-16 3:48:54 发表的内容
阿泰 在 2003-12-15 11:06:45 发表的内容
那天大昌的展示,因我找不到坐的位置,前后左右地站过不少地方,但不管我身处展厅的那一个位置,都会被那妙不可言的音乐所打动,太正点了,非笔墨可以形容。


And this is what we called the dispersion. That means the speakers have
a character of better directivity. To elaborate this directivity, it means,
theoritically, the speaker should disperse the full spectrum within the angle
of at least 90 degree evenly. If the speakers sound peaky somewhere in
the mid to high frequency, then the speaker becomes beaming. We
called it beaming effect which is not good for hi fi reproduction.
A good directivity is comes from speaker itself that means the entire spectrum is evenly distribute into the air. Sometime the pros system have serious
feedback howling when talking or singing through mic, is simply due to
bad directivity. The peak has a much stronger energy(sound level) that eventually inject into the microphone then howling occur.
Even though you have a good speaker of good directivity character, yet,
peaky sound might come from electronics of bad design such as amps,
sound source, or perhaps cable would affect or generate peaky sound.
This is what we called noisy, irritated to our ears.
Your feel in that day is a result of wide dispersion of sound that whereever you stand, the music is there. This also count on the energy level of mid and high frequency.
Some system won't go far because their mid and high energy is less than
ideal. We can almost determine that the system is lacking harmonics and
add up together, the system has no penetration power.
To be honest, these are thing that Mr. Chan told me.
Once again, I am not Mr. Chan but if you guys giving him credits, I'll turn
around to let him know as I think he deserved the credits.
Thanks once agin your comment, I'll tell Mr. Chan.
By the way,  I don't think Mr. Chan would have time to join us in this forum.





I had missed out something on my post. When I said DIRECTIVITY,
that is not enough or it is not right.
The term DIRECTIVITY should be written as

       CONSTANT DIRECTIVITY

Sorry folks, excuse me of being misleading.



既然擁有完美擴散和指向性,請順便講解一下音箱擺位内拗的用意?

Some system won't go far because their mid and high energy is less than ideal. We can almost determine that the system is lacking harmonics and add up together, the system has no penetration power.
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3#

madog 在 2003-12-14 13:21:04 发表的内容
阿泰 在 2003-12-8 15:49:23 发表的内容
salu 在 2003-12-8 10:40:11 发表的内容
[quote]车大炮 在 2003-12-7 1:45:24 发表的内容
因为有好多人说大派胆机的不是,这回我专门到大派的展厅听个究竟,大派胆机今天推的是JK的PM-122II大型音箱,我用了约半小时,听了多首乐曲,歌曲。
出来后转到旁边的大昌展厅,一入门口,我就发觉,刚才我浪费了那半小时!
可能有人说是什么回事,说也没用,你在两个地方听过之后就有答案了。


陳經綸確實比大派有派頭,手上拿的是煙斗而不是咪頭,細絲腳架的無框眼鏡,在細節上很會作派的,害我有想買個煙斗的衝動。造形上跟天朗的紳士風格滿般配的,加分!嘿嘿!
不過這次的超高音喇叭的表現還是稍過了點,稍銳利了點,感覺有點生澀,像新喇叭沒有煲透似的,配合不了紳士的那種醇和泰然的味道,有點失衡了,減分!


陳經綸的演示和器材表現相得益彰,都貴氣滿堂。
那天反應熱烈到他想去吃飯都不行,慘!!!





Yeah, the high frequency is a bit sharp in some recording but I think the   most important performance is, the system has the ability to preserve all
the details. This I guess could be rectified by changing other interconnect
or speaker cable. If it can change it to more mellow, soft but with speed, then it will be regarded as a high-end system. The most important issue in a
system is, they (all electronics) are capable to reproduce all the details,
nuance from the software (CD). then we can tailor the sound how they
express in a way we think the best.
If one system does not own such quality, then no matter what sort of cable
or interconnect one used has not good result. That is, as Mr.Chan commented in his music demo, he always emphasize the resolution of the
electronics and the bass region is the best way to demonstrate the
capability of the amps, CD players, DAC, etc.etc.
The harsh high frequency you'd heard, I think is the measure of enegy in such a way, depands where you sit (the distance between your goodself
and the loudspeaker.
Mr. Chan also stated that, good system should full-fill the room with music
regardless of where you sit or stand, but the best way to hear the focus of the solo instrument or vocal, of course should be in the middle of the
loudspeakers and somewhere away from them.
I still remember Mr.Chan said many years ago, " turn on your system and
walk our from your music room, if you feel that you can feel the music is
player as if somebody(s) is(are) playing live, then it shouldn't be a bad
system."

I am not trying to coaching people but I think Mr. Chan's comments are
quite OK.

Sorry folks, I can only type English and fogive my poor Chinese typing.

By the way, Ah Tai, Mr. Chan would like to thank you for the comment you
had written and he wanted me to show his appreciations to you and to
CHIR DAI PAU.[/quote]


爲什麽說高音稍過呢?總體平衡來説,讓人一聼就可感覺出超高頻來,未能完全融進整體之中,因此說銜接稍有失衡了。坐在第四排正中,陳洁麗小妹妹的錄音,本就高頻較尖細的,超高音喇叭表現出來也很幼細,奈何除此之外還有一些衍生出來的假細節,因此才說有生澀未煲透的感覺。能夠看得出來的刻意,算不上貴气。

阿淘的錄音《水路》,第四首《蒲公英》,歌詞大意是這樣的:
黃黃花蕊、日頭下睡,
圓圓小球、令人惜愛,
小時候叫它作糖波波,
握在手上,它會度你飛過河背,
歐。。。。。。
追風的孩子不見了,
追風的心情不見了,
不變的是追風的季節,
手上的糖波波隨風而飛。
整首曲子都是一種遠景的描繪,追憶的小時候,隨風飛遠的蒲公英,詩人老婆婆的娓娓背景獨白,意境多麽悠遠。遇上同軸大喇叭,請把音量收細,點解?豐滿的聲音填滿整個房間,沒有留下散發想象的空間,意境何來?用長焦,還是用廣角?
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4#

madog 在 2003-12-15 10:23:12 发表的内容

No one would or able to justify what is the real measure on how it would
sound at home even the authors (recording engineers, composers, recording directors) as they use their own studio equipments as reference. In this
way, we can only judging the degree of realism by digging more details
from the software and express them nicely, that is more musical but not lost of detail.

I was not there when they play the 'WATER WAY"  and I have no idea
how the performance was. Perhaps, this peotic piece of music is more
appropriate to reproduce in such a way and I believe nothing concern on what speaker system you are listening.
By the way, did you suggest the host to turn up the volumn ? I think they will be more than happy to accept your request and turn up the volumn as if you are in a disco ?

My friend, I still sense some gas from you, and I am expecting you to
stand in a more neutral position to discuss audio as in the internet, there
are lots of people are watching. Only an open discussion could give our
youngster readers a model to follow that is not to show hostility during
discussion. At this moment, I think I should introduce you to Mr.Chan then you can directly discuss this matter with him face to face ?

Hi Fi is fun, is a matter to entertain ourselves and by all means, it is not
necessary to be full of gase and hatred. That is not good for health and
damage other people.


很多年前,在廣州北京南路聽到天朗的喇叭播放卡彭特的《yesterday once more》的時候,覺得hifi的聲音真好聽,這種好感一直保持到現在。
今天在談論它的時候,也不存惡意,全憑個人審美觀感來抒發,確實與我期待的聲音不吻合,也許在另外的時間地點會有驚喜。
如果您感覺不適,我覺得您起的名字也夠激動的,請注意健康,怎麽說我也是個頭上長角,手中拿叉,尾巴帶箭頭的傢伙,傷害到您真是不好意思!(愛説笑的本性又來了,其實聊天吹水很正常的,不要說到會傷害人那麽嚴重啦,)
很高興跟您聊天,以後要經常來哦,不論如何,您的回應也很到點,關於細節還原,我還是說服不了耳朵,怎麽辦?如果陳生也能來聊聊,那才熱鬧呢。
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5#

相親相愛大家庭


大家都來爭不停


你來投時我擊擋


應該圍繞這話題∶

電源處理要乾淨
背景漆黑又寧定
主體自然才分明


對比強烈靠陰影


密度表現若是精
形象傳真才透明
丑妞個性分外型


兩相結合又平衡
色彩艷麗好鮮明


迴眸一刻有感情


綫條凝聚刻畫清


立體感強難轉睛


音響是否玩的好
氣質反映您外形
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6#

车大炮 在 2003-12-7 1:45:24 发表的内容
因为有好多人说大派胆机的不是,这回我专门到大派的展厅听个究竟,大派胆机今天推的是JK的PM-122II大型音箱,我用了约半小时,听了多首乐曲,歌曲。
出来后转到旁边的大昌展厅,一入门口,我就发觉,刚才我浪费了那半小时!
可能有人说是什么回事,说也没用,你在两个地方听过之后就有答案了。


陳經綸確實比大派有派頭,手上拿的是煙斗而不是咪頭,細絲腳架的無框眼鏡,在細節上很會作派的,害我有想買個煙斗的衝動。造形上跟天朗的紳士風格滿般配的,加分!嘿嘿!
不過這次的超高音喇叭的表現還是稍過了點,稍銳利了點,感覺有點生澀,像新喇叭沒有煲透似的,配合不了紳士的那種醇和泰然的味道,有點失衡了,減分!
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