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最近动力水之类垃圾又甚嚣尘上,翻老帖子打鬼! [复制链接]

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1#
最近HIFI乐趣区出现了一些莫名其妙的贴子,宣传什么动力水、魔法戒指、神油之类,引发很多争论。但明眼人一眼就可看出其中有JS和众多马甲在背后动作。本人玩音响有7年,所幸还没烧坏脑子,觉得有必要把这件事提上论坛讨论,大家集思广益!
1、HIFI乐趣应不应该有这样的明显的商业贴?许多BBS是严禁在非买卖论坛出现宣传产品贴的?
2、这些我认为是伪发烧的东西对于玩音响,到底是有益还是有害?我们是不是应该把精力放更多到电路、原件、喇叭、搭配、线材上,而不是这些放着离喇叭3米远就能改善音质,或涂抹在碟片上,就能让数字视频更上一层楼的玄妙东东上?

为慎重起见,建议大家看完这个帖子,看完大家提出的论据和论述和引证,再作选择。
投满100个人,这贴作用就达到了,贴子去留随版主吧。

投票:最近动力水之类垃圾又甚嚣尘上,翻老帖子打鬼! - 截止时间:2026/3/3 15:30:38

抱歉,您所在的用户组没有参与投票的权限,请注册或登录!
最后编辑ppzz
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2#

闲来无事,把古河主页上的企业介绍拷贝下来评点一下,在座的英文高手肯定众多,不知可曾仔细看过。
FURUTECH Company is established in (这里少一个冠词)year of 1988. In the beginning, he(男他,好生动阿,阳刚之美) was famous throughout all of worlds by(应该是for) selling all kinds of Furukawa Electronic PCOCC Audio & Visual cables (high purity single crystal oxygen-free copper used for Audio & Visual cable), also have earned confidence and support from a vast of Audio & Visual funs(应该是fans).
By accumulated many years experience of successful sales(完全的中国英语) various of audio & visual cables, well familiar with the loss of transmission single between Audio & Visual accessories and cables. is so astonishing. The perfect single transmission is no more traditional industrial grade or even hospital grade accessories can be satisfied Firstly, will promote the important concept of Audio Grade accessories, even promote the whole series Hi-end grade’s high quality accessories products.
Our products are included(被动?) all kinds of Home Audio & Visual cable, power Tap ( RTP-6), Power Filter ( e-TP60. e-TP80), Disc Demagnetizer ( RD-2), Tuning panel ( RWL-1), Disc pure cleaner ( PC-2)., 3C surface treatment liquid , all kind of Audio Grade/Hi-End Grade accessories, various cables and Audio Grade Accessories for Car Audio.

FURUTECH PURE TRANSMISSION--- CONCEPT
FURUTECH products research and development department is specialized in research material(反了?), technology of creating(manufacture?) cable, precision process way and constantly conducts the top pointed scientific technology. To research and development(develop?) super top pointed technology (super+top?) as our ideal, adhere thoroughly spirit of research and development, to realize (the?) FURUTECH “Pure Transmission” concept.
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3#

不是盲听作不得数的。
对了,向海阳兄问个问题:
如果音箱下面垫大理石,两层中间夹软垫。那么上层大理石可不可以看成音箱的一部分?下层大理石可不可以看成是地板的一部分?这样是不是就相当于加重的音箱垫了软垫?那音箱的脚钉还有什么用处呢?
音箱基座的出发点是什么?是不是应该尽可能坚实不振动?那么垫软垫岂不是会增加共振?如果软的阻尼更好,那音箱干嘛不用橡皮的脚钉?
我自己的音箱是金属脚钉落在玻化砖上的。试过直接橡胶垫不好。
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4#

顺便看看论坛musicone老兄对其评价:光碟动力水这个DD效果确实不错。试用后看《史前巨鳄》,高度还原清晰逼真的画面,当主角落在水里慌忙地寻找那巨鳄时,巨鳄在他身后静悄悄地浮出水面那一刻,那宁静的气息和惊心动魄的场面······
顺带说一句,对这位老兄我稍微注意了一下,发现了一些很有趣的事情。MUSICONE老兄和富昌兄均注册于2004年5月11日,两个IP61.144.114.32和219.137.38.193尽管貌似不同,但都是来自广东省广州市,都是电信的ADSL。
纯属巧合别无他意阿。
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5#

白菜 在 2004-8-3 12:15:29 发表的内容
看来有人是大饼白菜帮子吃撑了然后来考虑什么打鬼,饭后运动吗?


大饼白菜帮子可不是我说的。
您的观点是怎样的?不要一味息事宁人,来讨论嘛。
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6#

自己听当然无所谓,拿出来作为评测依据,盲听当然是必要。怎么排除你自己的心理暗示呢?
懒得说了。
我不再回这个帖子了,等他投票到100个,版主删了吧。
最后编辑ppzz
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7#

博大家一笑吧。
不过估计有些喜欢戒指的烧友看不懂英文,我就翻译了一些。
Digital Recording's CD-CHECK proved to be an outstanding tool for checking the quality and serviceability of CD players. It has found a welcome home in my bag of tools when evaluating players. Highly recommended!

这篇文章的上半部分,介绍了作者检测音频CD机的两个工具,CDCHECK和DED,我就不多说了,大家自己看原文。
"Disc Enhancement" Products -- Do They Really Work?
碟片加强工具,它们有用吗?
Having satisfied myself that CD-CHECK and DED worked as claimed, I decided to give some of the more esoteric audio products a run for their money. After all, now that I had a way of objectively quantifying the errors introduced using these tools, it made sense to substantiate or refute the claims made by various manufacturers of disc enhancement products.
有了两个检测工具,作者想对市面上的碟片加强工具进行检测。
Note that I did not personally purchase any of the following products myself (I don't like to throw my money away). Different audiophile friends who were nice enough to loan them to me for these tests purchased the products.
作者自己并没买,是借了一些这类东西。
Also note that each test was tried in three different manufacturer's CD players. This was done to rule out the possibility of one player not allowing the products to be shown in a favorable light.
每次测试试用了三种品牌的CD机。
Last, but not least, I was unable to obtain all the tweak disc enhancements I've seen advertised.
最终完全没有任何提高。
Since I was relying on the kindness of my audiophile friends and did not wish to purchase the products myself, I was at the mercy of what they had to offer. For example, I had wished to conduct this test with CD-Backlight and some CD stabilizer rings I had seen advertised. Alas, none of my friends had these items and therefore they were not tested. I don't suspect I would be overly impressed even if they had been available. (OK, I'm a cynic).
有一些碟片加强工具因为朋友中没人用,就无法测试了,但作者自己有信心这些东西没用。
The first and second products I tried were something called "Statmat" and a product called the "Orpheus CD tuning mat." The marketing types who push the "Statmat" would have you believe that the Statmat's specially engineered conductive polypropylene film is specially formulated with conductive inks that somehow mean that you obtain vastly better sound. Supposedly, this diaphanous sheet of plastic sits on top of your CDs and helps to control static build up with can degrade the sound of your player. In much the same vein, the makers of the "Orpheus CD tuning mat" claim that its use will result in a vast sonic improvement.
Statmat和CD tuning mat,据厂商说能改善声音,放在碟上的塑料片片能提高CD机读取的稳定性。
Using the DED I tried the Statmat and the Orpheus CD tuning mat with three different discs both with and without the mats. In each case, I noticed absolutely no audible improvement in the sound quality with the Statmat or with the Orpheus CD tuning mat. Conversely, I did not notice a decrease in listening quality either. To my ears, the sound remained unchanged.
用DED工具,试验了三次,放了片片和没放,每次声音上完全没有区别。当然也听不出音质下降。
However, the DED error count rose higher whenever either the Statmat or the Orpheus CD tuning mat was used. This happened in every case. Apparently, the use of the Statmat or the Orpheus CD tuning mat actually resulted in a decrease in data quality, although the player's error correction and concealment circuitry compensated for this with no audible differences being noted. I cannot recommend that anyone buy or use either of these products.
使用DED的错误计数,使用任何片片,都会引起数据错误增加。
The third through sixth treatments I tried were "coating oil" made by Yamamura Systems; "anti-static spray" made by Nordost; and "boundary layer optical fluid" and "compact disc edge treatment"made by Marigo Audio Labs. The Yamamura Systems "coating oil" is said to form a thin film surface on the disc which is claimed to improve the disc's "transparency and light permeability." The Nordost "anti-static spray" is said to collapse the magnetic field generated by signals passing through metal, (but they advertise it can also be used on CDs as well). The "boundary layer optical fluid" is said to result in increased clarity, dynamics, and low-level resolution from discs that have been treated with it. The "compact disc edge treatment" is a green marking pen which can supposedly improve the performance of any player when a disc is played which is so treated.
六次试验中的第三次是使用药膏,"coating oil" made by Yamamura Systems,"anti-static spray" made by Nordost; and "boundary layer optical fluid" and "compact disc edge treatment"made by Marigo Audio Labs.据说能提高声音的透明度。等等等等。
I tried all of these products on a number of discs and in no case did any of them result in an audible improvement in the sound quality or in a decrease in the error count as evidenced though the use of the DED. On some of the products I was suspicious of the chemical reaction between the disc surface and the treatments themselves. What would be the long-term consequences of using these chemicals on a plastic disc surface? Would their use promote the breakdown of the disc surface itself? My recommendation is that you leave these products on the shelf as well.
试用了N多次,完全没有声音的提高和下降,无论是听觉还是DED的仪器测试,但是作者对这些药膏长期和CD表面发生化学反应表示担心。作者建议把这些垃圾扔掉。
The last product I tried was the "Bedini Ultra Clarifier." The product looks like a small box. You put your CD inside and then push a button. The device spins the disc at a high rate of speed over magnets, supposedly "degaussing" the disc, the end result purport to be a disc with increased fidelity. Despite the fact that this entire process seems to make absolutely zero scientific sense I tried it anyway. As I expected, treated discs resulted in zero difference --- both audibly as well as quantitatively as shown by DED. My recommendation is that you stay away from this device and don't waste your money.
最后一个产品是Bedini Ultra Clarifier.,神奇的去磁器,除了作者认为这个行为在科学上没有任何意义,正如作者期望的,测试的结果没有任何区别。作者建议不要浪费钱财。
The bottom line on all these supposed disc enhancements is the fact that they don't work --- period! As the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted. If any of these devices had actually proven to result in better sound, (when proven via double-blind testing) or in reduced error rates on DED I may have felt differently. Readers would do better to hold on to their hard-earned cash and invest the difference in more discs.
所有这些的共同点:没有任何用处。傻子才花钱买这些(a fool and his money are soon parted笑死了)。当然作者建议读者捏紧手里的赚来不易的钱。

Excerpted with permission from Issue #72, Nov/Dec 1998, of "The $ensible Sound" magazine. tel. (716) 833 - 0930, fax. (716) 833 - 0929, E-mail: SensiSound@aol.com
选自The $ensible Sound杂志。
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8#

白菜 在 2004-8-3 12:04:57 发表的内容
世界上绝对纯洁的地方是没有的,大家忍着点

何况有两句话:“群众眼睛不一定是雪亮的”,“真理有时掌握在少数人手里”
还是有一定道理的。

靠群众力量搞一刀切可能不是好做法。


民.主不一定是绝对正确的,但是民.主是最不容易出错的。
何况这里也是讨论嘛。不这么讨论,烧友们还以为大家都觉得这个好。
现在的投票比例不是很好的教材吗?
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9#

dcm 在 2004-8-5 14:58:19 发表的内容
“有位国外著名录音师,把一块没加工的结晶铜放录音室,据说声音比较活泼,不知他是否傻了?”一点都不奇怪,按理还应加上”细节更多了”。原因是金属是一个硬反射体,拿一块金属板放到录音棚里与辅块地毯带来的声音影响效果一样大,问题是录音棚体积的大小,带进来金属反射面的太小是否能达到可闻性的听觉变化。并且好坏是不一定的!最重要一点这种方式严肃的、专业的录音棚是不会去效法的。另外什么叫“没加工的结晶铜”从化学分子构成而言它应是一个能形状还请赐教!
最后,在严格的论证意义而言“有位国外著名录音师”这种引证是一种:“无厘头”式的引证。


我也赞成。
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