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610 - 2008/2/21 9:29:00
也贴一张,助兴。

期待S兄,精彩继续。

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shinelb - 2008/2/21 9:36:00
^_^,这张我没有。应该很难找了。发这个帖子,我觉得自己还是比较负责的,虽然是在网上,我贴的那些版本全部在档次还可以的音响听的,听到什么就说什么。可能会和一些朋友意见不太一样,欢迎讨论。:)
江月 - 2008/2/21 9:43:00
GOULD弹的歌德堡,还有其他巴赫的键盘作品,我经历了一个很漫长的,从不喜欢到深深折服的过程。正好前几天听过81版,又对比了55版和其他钢琴家的演奏,无疑晚期的GOULD技巧已不及早年,也不再追求那种电光火石般的狂飙效果,但演绎已到了天马行空的境界,而且每每令人闻之动容,隐隐还有种揪心的感觉。我相信GOULD和其他人是没有可比性的,他对音乐的“提纯”达到了令人生畏的程度。
shinelb - 2008/2/21 9:54:00
欢迎江月兄的意见。大家意见不一样很正常。你谈的是古尔德自己的超越。我是在比较AVI那版图蕾克和82版的GG,有点区别。相对来说,图蕾克的版本要温柔,韵味要好。某些地方这两人有点象。也可以说古尔德要大气一些。有机会我也听听55版,你也听听AVI.:)
江月 - 2008/2/21 10:02:00
我倒是觉得GOULD的55版有点追求表面效果,虽然在这么“高速”的情况下仍带有自己独特的韵味,但和其他许多名版比起来还是稍嫌仓促了些,故不在我“首选”之列。图蕾克只有DG版,我听说AVI的演奏大有区别,有机会应听听
shinelb - 2008/2/21 10:22:00
江月兄:这版和你意见好象也不大一样,我不是很喜欢这版,哈哈

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shinelb - 2008/2/21 10:38:00
图蕾克和GG都是有争议的演奏家,我们大家看法不同也合情合理。
江月 - 2008/2/21 11:12:00
席夫版,听多了觉得有点小气,不如他弹的其他巴赫作品,这个我和S兄意见统一,哈哈;P
shinelb - 2008/2/21 11:17:00
今晚我认真比较一下AVI和DG的图蕾克,再谈一下。:P
shinelb - 2008/2/21 14:14:00
原帖由 shinelb 于 2008-2-21 11:17:00 发表
今晚我认真比较一下AVI和DG的图蕾克,再谈一下。:P
DG版太慢了,稍微缺乏高低起伏变化,显得有点单调。AVI版更有活力,更加生动。两版音色很好,AVI版明暗对比要精致,DG版有点呆板(说活有点过了)。
shinelb - 2008/2/21 14:21:00
一个没什么名气的版本,还没听,听过的朋友请说说,我一下子找不到唱片:

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江月 - 2008/2/21 17:48:00
原帖由 shinelb 于 2008-2-21 14:14:00 发表
DG版太慢了,稍微缺乏高低起伏变化,显得有点单调。AVI版更有活力,更加生动。两版音色很好,AVI版明暗对比要精致,DG版有点呆板(说活有点过了)。


我也觉得是,有点呆板
dctt - 2008/2/21 18:33:00
原帖由 江月 于 2008-2-21 11:12:00 发表
席夫版,听多了觉得有点小气,不如他弹的其他巴赫作品,这个我和S兄意见统一,哈哈;P


想问声 江月兄,,,怎么听出小气来的???不理解请教....再想问问演奏BACH的 歌德堡变奏曲是用什么来衡量小气或者(有小气估计还有大气之说,,,)????
shinelb - 2008/2/21 18:34:00
;P ;P ;P
milesmingus - 2008/2/21 22:44:00
这帖不至顶可惜
Sunriselee - 2008/2/21 22:57:00
原帖由 shinelb 于 2008-2-19 18:14:00 发表
平诺克这个大键琴版是我不大喜欢的。主要问题是,她那非常奇特的节奏令人不能感到水乳交融,某些段落非常快,令人有缺乏冥想的感觉,显得有些匆匆忙忙。但平诺克用大键琴作为伴奏倒是非常好的,像她和波洁合作的巴赫......



这个版本我觉得太吵杂,感觉奇怪。
raymondyuang - 2008/2/22 1:17:00
欢迎shinelb发好贴,辛苦,同时也感谢江月等其它专家发表看法,受益匪浅
shinelb - 2008/2/22 9:06:00
大家若有兴趣,请多参予讨论啊。;P ;P ;P
gan - 2008/2/22 10:15:00
LB兄对希夫在ECM出的现场录音怎么看?
shinelb - 2008/2/22 11:15:00
Gan兄:ECM那两个版本我都没有,我也想听听你的意见?;P ;P ;P
gan - 2008/2/22 12:32:00
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ECM的席夫版我觉得要好过他的DECCA版,但也许是先入为主吧,我最喜欢的还是古尔德的55年版。:)
ANDRE - 2008/2/22 13:45:00
ALPHA 014 (2CD)

CD 1
Céline Frisch, clavecin
Clavecin allemand réalisé par Antony Sidey & Frédéric Bal

CD 2
14 canons sur les huit premières notes de basse de l'Aria des Variations Goldberg BWV1087

Café Zimmermann
Pablo Valetti, Calire Cachia & David Plantier, violons
Sabine Bouthinon, alto
Petr Skalka, violoncelle
Ludek Brany, contrebasse

Les chansons allemandes de la Variation 30 (Quodlibet)
Dominique Visse, contre-ténor
Pablo Valetti, violon
Mélanie Flahaut, flûte
Claire Gautrot, violoncelle
Vincent Dumestre, guitare baroque
Freddy Eichelberger, cistre
Christophe Tellart, vielle à roue
David Vatteville, percussions

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江月 - 2008/2/22 15:31:00
原帖由 dctt 于 2008-2-21 18:33:00 发表

想问声 江月兄,,,怎么听出小气来的???不理解请教....再......


Dctt兄,我是相当喜欢席夫的演奏的,估计您也是。但我一直固执地觉得他的气质更适合表达舒伯特、莫扎特,他的舒伯特奏鸣曲,我认为有大家风范,莫扎特也飘逸俊秀,自成一格,他的巴赫虽然整体来说也是我喜欢的类型,如平均律和英国组曲都很工整大方,只是说到歌德堡。。。席夫的演奏显得特别的温润纤巧细腻,如小桥流水,小家碧玉,故谓之“小气”,在此并无多少贬义。相反的例子,如佩拉西亚、瓦尔查等,就弹得气象万千,布局严密,音色结实,可谓之“大”,还有古尔德,可谓之“狂”。。。一切的一切都是相比的结果,加上个人的口味,还是喜欢“宏大”的巴赫,故出此言,呵呵,请多多指正
柳叶刀 - 2008/2/22 16:22:00
原帖由 江月 于 2008-2-22 15:31:00 发表
Dctt兄,我是相当喜欢席夫的演奏的,估计您也是。但我一直固执地觉得他的气质更适合表达舒伯特、莫扎特,他的舒伯特奏鸣曲,我认为有大家风范,莫扎特也飘逸俊秀,自成一格,他的巴赫虽然整体来说也是我喜欢的类型,如平均律和英国组曲都很工整大方,只是说到歌德堡。。。席夫的演奏显得特别的温润纤巧细腻,如小桥流水,小家碧玉,故谓之“小气”,在此并无多少贬义。相反的例子,如佩拉西亚、瓦尔查等,就弹得气象万千,布局严密,音色结实,可谓之“大”,还有古尔德,可谓之“狂”。。。一切的一切都是相比的结果,加上个人的口味,还是喜欢“宏大”的巴赫,故出此言,呵呵,请多多指正


个人以为这个评价很中肯,赞!
江月 - 2008/2/22 16:39:00
柳兄很久没发表意见了啊,快谈谈您喜欢的版本吧;P
柳叶刀 - 2008/2/22 16:50:00
原帖由 江月 于 2008-2-22 16:39:00 发表
柳兄很久没发表意见了啊,快谈谈您喜欢的版本吧;P


江兄客气!

对我来说,听过的988的版本不可谓不多,但现在回想起来,再想听的不过3个人的:Wanda Landowska、Gustav Leonhardt和Rosalyn Tureck(按姓氏字母排序),其他的过一耳朵罢了。至于G.G,只是最后想评价的人,呵呵……

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柳叶刀 - 2008/2/22 16:57:00
我很挑剔录音的质量,键琴版本中,Gustav Leonhardt几乎就是我唯一常听的。

贴些相关的介绍:

GUSTAV LEONHARDT CEMBALO / HARPSICHORD
(William Dowd, Paris 1975,nach /after Blanchet, Paris 1730)

The Goldberg Variations Not too much credence should be attached to the story initially reported in Johann Nikolaus Forkel's 1802 biography of Bach, that the Goldberg Variations were written to the commission of Count Keyserlingk. In all probability Bach presented his noble sponsor with a copy of the newly printed work on his visit to Dresden in November 1741, and it is certain that Johann Gottlieb Goldberg (1727 – 56), the highly gifted pupil of J. S. and W. F. Bach, and Keyserlingk's harpsichordist, often played the work to his master – probably in reality to while away the latter's sleepless nights. But there is no trace of a formal dedication to the Count on the title page of the 1741 printed edition, as the niceties of 18th century manners would certrainly have demanded. Furthermore, it is more than doubtful whether Bach could have had in mind the capacities of the then only 13 year old Goldberg when he began to compose the work, in 1740 at the latest. It is much more likely that this set of variations, like the three preceding parts of the "Clavier-Übung", were written at Bach's own initiative. The monumental series of "clavier exercises", representing the most important types of keyboard music in exemplary compositions, was destined to receive a cyclically closed major work as its crown and conclusion.

This closing part of the Clavierübung simultaneously opens the series of monothematic contrapuntal instrumental works which occupied the last decade of Bach's life. How much this set of variations may be regarded as a milestone is particularly evident from Bach's manuscript copy which became known to us only in 1975, containing, in addition to important corrections and amendments, a manuscript appendix with "14 canons on the first 8 ground notes of the Aria" (BWV 1087), the new conceptual basis of which was to find fuller expression in the later works (e. g. the Musical Offering). The unusual proportions of the set of variations are already apparent in the length of the theme, which Bach developed from a traditional bass model into a 32-bar ground bass for the aria and its variations. The number of bars and the total number of sections (Aria, 30 variations, Aria da capo) correspond exactly: a perfect proportion. The overall plan and structure of the work mirrors the composer's intended balance of "inventio" and "ratio". The variety of musical forms, types of rhythmic movement, expressive moods and technical refinements is divided into two large sections each containing 15 variations (the second begins with an Overture) and simultaneously finds its backbone in the form of a compelling contrapuntal climax: each third section is a canon, with the imitative intervals climbing steadily from unison to ninth, and at the end stands a Quodibet as a humorous final section, combining the theme of the work with two folktunes ("Kraut and Rüben haben mich vertrieben", "Ich bin so lang nicht bei dir g'west").

Translation: D. D. Jones



GUSTAV LEONHARDT was born in the Netherlands in 1928. He grew up in a musical household and became interested in the harpsichord and organ at an early age. He later studied both instruments under Eduard Müller at the Basel Schola Cantorum.

In 1952 he was appointed Professor of Musicology and harpsichord at the Vienna State Academy of Music. In 1955 he relinquished this position in order to return to Amsterdam, where he now teaches in the Conservatoire and is organist of the French Reformed Church. His international concert career, which dates back to 1950, has included numerous American recital tours and in 1969 he occupied the H. A. Lamb Chair at Harvard University.

As a musicologist he has published a study of Bach's Art of Fugue and has edited Sweelinck's Keyboard Works for the collected edition prepared by the Society for Dutch Music History. Under his editorship a series of 17th century chamber music has been published by Universal Edition. In 1968 he took the principal role in Jean Marie's Straub's Bach film, playing the part of the Cantor of the St. Thomas's, whose music forms the nucleus of Leonhardt's artistic achievement.


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柳叶刀 - 2008/2/22 17:04:00
可能由于师承的关系,小辈中Hantai应该说非常好,但相比Leonhardt,功力还是差些,不很耐听,却很好听。淘宝上价钱不高,值得拥有。

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柳叶刀 - 2008/2/22 17:05:00
原帖由 shinelb 于 2008-2-21 14:14:00 发表
原帖由 shinelb 于 2008-2-21 11:17:00 发表
今晚我认真比较一下AVI和DG的图蕾克,再谈一下。:P
DG版太慢了,稍微缺乏高低起伏变化,显得有点单调。AVI版更有活力,更加生动。两版音色很好,......


同感!:)
江月 - 2008/2/22 17:10:00
柳兄的兰老太和图老太两版,我都未听过,应该都是很重要的版本吧
莱昂哈特的,我有两版,后者是53年,莱先生学生时代的录音,听得少,没什么印象了

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